I watched the YT video on setting up the ETS but unless I missed something neither it or the online documentation gets into much detail on how to set up and use it on the 24 R.
I have mine connected and operating but I’m getting odd results with tool lengths that are slightly negative for instance. I suspect it’s related to how I set the spindle length using 123 blocks but before I started over I thought I’d ask to see what others do.
I was also a little surprised in the documentation to see it say that you should re-measure the spindle every time and that the ETS does not work for finding workpiece surface heights on the 24R. The first is tolerable as I probably won’t need to re-measure tools very often with the ATC, but the second seems like one of the main value props for it. Does it really not work for these cases or is this just a matter of it potentially being off by 5-10 thous?
The servos are not indexed so that little clonk you hear when you press the reset is the magnets pulling the servo into station. The problem is that the poles on the servo when released (shutdown) can rotate a few degrees. So the next day when you power up and reset, the servo could get pulled back to where it was the day before or advance to the next motor pole. This usually isn’t problem for the X and Y axis as gravity doesn’t effect them along their axis but because the Z axis could be off by a couple degrees and the tool length could be a little longer than yesterday, putting it into the table. Thats why it’s procedure to reference the spindle every time the machine is powered. I think most people leave the machines on all the time. Also I do t reference mine every time but I dont trust the referencing and set my offsets by other insane ways.
Wouldn’t the G53 coordinate system be set from the home switch positions though, which don’t change?
On my old 1100 mill the only time I measured a tool was the first time it went into the tool table.
I followed the setup detailed on page 92 in 24r manual for the ets.
The manual details how to determine ETS height and its home touch off location on the router.
This gets you to first base with the values in correct fields.
Note as always there is a number of different ways to do this and I detail the way I setup the Z offsets the most with top of material as Z offset in programs.
I first turn on and home the machine.
Then I put a pointed chamfer tool in the spindle and type the correct tool number for that tool into PP main screen.
Then I use the tool offset screen to touch that tool off the ETS and PP sets tool height in tool table.
I then move that tool over the workpiece and touch the tool tip against the top of workpiece and zero z WORK offset on main page. Z is now set for the program. I then set x and Y offsets of workpiece.
At this point PP knows where z workpiece offset is relative to top of tool setter and where x and y offsets are on work piece and is ready to run a program
With a program loaded I hit run.
PP will move over the ets and prompt for first tool in the program.
I load that tool and hit continue. PP sets a tool offset value using the ETS
Then I hit continue again and the machine moves spindle of workpiece and begins program and cutting.
The program continues to run and stops over the ets and prompts for each tool used in the program.
Change tools as programmed hit run and it touches off each tool and then uses that offset for program cutting.
When finished the spindle moves over ets and the part is done.
Depending on how you locate and fixture the material you might not need to set work offsets until you change to a different program or location on the router table.
24R is super easy to use after you develop a strategy and workflow that is best for you.
Hope this helps.
If you don’t care about the 0.002in or .05 mm you are probably fine. The variance can build up after a while but it can also not build up.
The book setup is for when every micron counts.
If your in the take a tenth, leave a tenth you could conceivably reference once and never need to do it again. But if your counting individual atoms and using expensive tools you gonna want to reference.
Not clear what book setup you reference. Maybe the ets for the mill?
I would not expect the ETS sold with router to hit those numbers on its best day anyway.
And not clear you understand the whole router concept. The table is not precision flat either.
if you want to chase 0.002 in the z axis on a large format 2x4 gantry router, go for it! 
You would need a point cloud for the area the material is fixtured in to ever get even close to those numbers in Z axis in a large area. My 1100 mill cant even hit those z numbers over the full x-y range.
Anyway
As I mentioned there is a number of different ways to setup and get acceptable or improved accuracy.
I explained an easy one that is fast and works well with wood, plastics and composites.
No drama. makes the 24r fun and easy to setup run code and make stuff.
Have fun and keep the spindles warm making stuff!
Thanks Lane, I will go back and check that manual reference again. I think I was following some other online documentation which I thought was the manual but it didn’t have very much detail on the setup process.
One consideration here is that I have the ATC so in principle I should be able to measure tool heights once and be done with it. I also have the rack in the upper extent of the table so placing the ETS is a little tight if I want to keep a full 48" of table free.
I suspect that I did the spindle height measure wrong because my tool lengths are coming out negative which makes no sense. What I did was measure the spindle height off a 123 block and then set the Z height (in the DRO) to 3" plus my feeler gage. Then I put the ETC on top of the blocks and ran the setup, and I think it’s not accounting for the height of the block.
I understand if you want the absolute best certainty of every part of the system you would re-calibrate it from the bottom up each time, but I don’t see why Z errors should accumulate. The table height, ETC height, tool+toolholder length, and Z axis home switch positions are all fixed.
I could see where temperature changes would cause some variance but not amounts that should require recalibrating on each run. Maybe if you were running something right on top of the table and wanted to minimize cutting into the vacuum table surface, then I’d see the utility.
I am speaking from the point of view of a 1100mx so a very different machine. That said, the bolts holding the home switches on the 1100 do loosen over time. Not sure if the 24r switches are bolted on but if so make sure they stay tight. Of course the more often you make sure they are tight the more often you probably need to check them. Anyone invented oil and water proof thread lock? (I think they call that welding)
First off the home switches are only used to home the machine. And each time you home the machine you need to also set the new x,y,z work offsets for your material. It retains them but not accurately.
This is stepper driven machine and cant be relied on to repeat from Home switches EVER imho.
All stepper driven machines have this limit. My 1100 mill and all non Servo driven mills are have the same limitation.
Servo driven machines can retain position after E stop or power down and don’t always need to have work offsets reset.
The tool z offset heights are set in the tool table relative to the difference between the ETS and the material Z offset set for the programmed part after each time the tool is touched off in the program.
back to workflow.
A tool from tool table needs to be touched off the ETS and then the same tool moved over and used to touched off the material to set Z part offset.
At this point the machine knows where the Z work offset is RELATIVE to the top of the ETS and all tool offsets and tools used in the program will be adjusted by that relative amount.
The tool table heights could be plus or minus values based on the difference between ets height and material height set.
I guess its kind of confusing if you are use to a static tool table heights like a mill with no ets would use.
1 Like
I use the home switches to home the machine only
They are not accurate and can never be trusted on a stepper driven machine like a 1100s, 24r router and 8l lathe.
Each power up I load the Hameir probe into spindle and set X,Y,Z work offsets on the material.
The tool table tool z offsets are set offline using the offline method with height gauge and surface plate. The tool heights are only checked now and then or when I think something has moved.
If machine is shut off then
re home the machine and probe all new x,y,z work offsets is required no free lunch
1 Like
So the part I specifically don’t get is this: The documentation implies that I should be touching off both the spindle nose and the tools on each power-up cycle. Maybe I am mis-reading that, but if not, I am struggling to understand why.
Let’s say I have a .250" bit in an ISO20 holder that measures out to exactly 2" from the spindle. That length is not going to change. If I touch that tool off on the top of my workpiece, then the spindle nose will be exactly 2" from Z=0, and will be so every single time I do it.
Once I’ve done that, then I also know the position of every other tool tip relative to the workpiece because the ISO20 toolholders are repeatable in Z. It is like measuring with a 2" feeler gage instead of a cigarette paper.
1 Like
The reason for the need to re calibrate the spindle to ETS is the fact home switches on a stepper machine do not repeat accurately for x,y,Z
What is the behavior of the program and machine when you have a ATC and use a ETS?
Does the machine run the program and touch off each tool in atc first and set values in the tool table then run or does it do them one at a time during execution?
What tool or method are you using to set Z offset on the work piece?
I guess there is a number of ways this can work and depending on what the machine wants with a ATC and ETS combo and what the code wants also.
If the program does them one at a time then my method detailed above will work fine with or without ATC
if it loads tool table with heights before the program runs then It will still work with a change in the way you setup the master tool used to set any z offset. Still unless the code is required to use the calibrated value you set with the “spindle to ETS setup” I just don’t see any reason for this with my workflow.
It’s a router. It’s made to cut whatever thickness wood profiles. If you cut 1/2 inch profiles and your joint cutouts are 47/100” it’s still going to fit. Bottom line is reference when you move your ETS and you should be fine.
Does your MX have a ATC and ETS?
Is the ETS mounted and fixed or can it be moved?
Does it touch of tools all at one time?
How do you set the Z work offset relative to the ETS Z?
Always wondered what people do and what Tormach recommends to do.
My 1100S3 mill is old school manual and offline tool setup. and I never read the new MX manuals
The 24r router ETS is designed to be used in both a fixed place and also moved to a surface you want to set a Z work offset using the actual ETS to do it.
This is yet another method supported that I didn’t explain and might work good on a router with a ATC
Anyway This machine is very precise .
Just like a mill or any good CNC machine.
If you cut 1/2" profiles expect it to cut 1/2" from where you set 0 on the material.
Its up to you how precise that is done and how you do it
I don’t have an arc but I do have a ETS. I make watches so I am always , always after accuracy. If you look at some of my posts you will see that I have mapped my table height and constantly search for perfection. Since I usually work in a small area I setup just for that space. The first thing I do is refrence the machine and then the spindle, set the probe length and reference the ETs height. Then I do something crazy and not recommended which is measure the ETs height with the probe. I do this by holding the top of the ETs so that it can’t trigger and probe it. Also I know that my ETs has an activation range of .002mm so I subtract that from tool 98 (instead of 99) length to give me the probe length. I do this so I can see any deviation of the table between my vice and the ETs. So I have a chart of the table z height for reference. So then I do all the math (which is just a spreadsheet now) that tells me if the table is still riding in the same sort of bow that I am used to and if it is I can proceed. If not it might be time to clean and adjust the gib. If it’s in expected position i load all the tools and measure them and then probe the work again but only show results. Depending on the tool diameter I get a fair bit of variation so I will check the larger tools but most of my work is 1-3mm end mills. I also like to keep the tools I am using for the day in the sun so they are already warm when they go into the machine. I know I sound insane but it works.
1 Like
So the tool table z tool offsets are all preset with using the ets before you run a program. This is like the offline method I use but only you use the ets for values and not a height gauge and surface plate like I use.
Interesting!
Well, for your case it makes sense that you are going to use every trick in the book to make a cheap Chinese machine behave like something much more expensive. A lot of what you pay for in high end equipment isn’t the absolute capability, but the ability to get a level of performance without trying very hard.
1 Like
Nothing cheap about my Chinese made machines🤣
I have a small fortune in my garage.
Well it’s all relative. I bought a VF2SS earlier this year, with the phase converter it cost close to 6 figures, and yet in the grand scheme of things many would call that a cheap machine
Nice machine, and yes 100k$ only gets you started in commercial grade tools.
Kern and others are big bucks.
I enjoy what I consider craftsman quality cnc machine tools. With experience they are precise, easy to use, setup, clean and repair. Add some crazy refined cad and cam skills and you are limited only by imagination and money. They are perfect for prototype work and with the same pp interface for all three machines just adds to the utility.
1 Like