PCNC 440 Speeds and Feeds

Mill
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I found some useful information in the forum on the topic of speeds and feeds for the 440, but I still have a few questions.

I have recently purchased a used, PCNC 440 that I have yet to run anything on. I’ve done the maintenance on it and think I’m ready to run a few tests. I use Fusion 360 for doing CAD/CAM and plan to have my tool library configured with speeds and feeds.

I’ve seen discussions on using ProvenCut, Millalyzer, or FSWizard as potential sources for speeds and feeds. I’ve used FSWizard years ago on a smaller mill with some limited success, but as a very infrequent hobby machinist, I’ve forgotten most of what I did with it. I would really love a simple way to plug in the material type, end mill information, mill constraints/limitations, and have a tool spit out the information I need to plug into Fusion’s tool library. I know I’m asking a lot, and there are still possible unique-to-my-machine limits that would need to be accounted for.

With all of that said, is ProvenCut or Millalyzer the best options for getting those speeds and feeds? I don’t see a trial option for Millalyser to test it out or a way to contact the developer/owner. Any chance someone actually has a sample tool library for the PCNC 440 or recommendations for creating conservative Fusion tool library setup?

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G-wizard is/was a popular option too, but the root problem is there is no one fixed answer to what you’re asking for.

All the calculators can do is give you a starting point to adjust from based on your machine, your work, your setup, depth of cut, coolant quality, tool stickout, machine wear, desired tool life, cutting time, pucker-factor, etc, etc, etc. I use the free version of FSWizard and it gets me close enough for most things on the 1100. Then the first run of every program starts off dialed way back and I gradually increase or stop and make a note.

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Roy is right, sadly, there is no free lunch here as I also had to learn the hard way when I was just getting started. I’ve found provencut to be all but useless. Sure it has some recipes for the 440 but (last I checked which was a while ago) not many any not for any of the tools that I typically use.
I also found gwizard to be unintuitive and largely wrong back when I tried it. Granted that was a long time ago as well and maybe my lack of knowledge was the issue.
FSWizard is the only one that has been generally good for me. It’s still not perfect but it has generally gotten me close to something useful. The key thing to watch out for is HP and torque requirements. You can set a rpm limit but not a power limit so the app will calculate the cut without any regard for your machine’s spindle power so be sure to check those numbers and adjust your cut accordingly. I usually find that reducing DOC until the HP requirement is within my machine’s abilities works well.
In the end, you will have to experiment and in doing so, you will break tools and waste material. Aluminum is easy so once you have something that works you can just leave it there and not worry too much about optimizing to get the most MRR but steel and other harder or more exotic metals are going to take a little trial and error to find what works. And to make it worse, workholding, tooling, and material lot, can all play a role so what works for one job may suddenly not for the next.

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Easy Speeds and Feeds, web based free program.

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Thanks. That’s a new one to me. I’ll check out the site.

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If your just ordering junk (carbides or HSS from Amazon they don’t even offer feeds and speeds, and if you can find some for a similar end mill you should probably start by halving the recommend speeds and feeds. I would recommend buying a few end mills from somewhere that actually has a catalogue and has feeds and speeds listed. The garbage on Amazon will cost you more and never perform close to name brand end mills.
Also try to get an actual catalogue from them to have a reference for any end mills you buy, find or make in the future.
I started out buying from eBay and you can find some good stuff there. But even the big brand names like to discontinue or rename their products and then the web page for that end mill disappears.
I have a couple hundred in my fusion library and it takes ages to plug in all the data.

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Note that tool manufacturer speeds and feeds are often optimized for part production versus tool life since they are a consumable in industry and it’s in their best interest to sell you more tools as long as you are happy with how fast it makes parts.

If you want your tools to last longer in hobby usage, downgrade the manufacturer recommendations from those places. Likely the recommendations are for a far more rigid machine anyway.

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I probably won’t be making enough stuff to wear out many, if any of the tools, but duly noted. I just want to find numbers somewhere in the middle, but I’d be happy with higher numbers if they don’t break anything and end up with a nice part.

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I’d just keep trying to learn and budget for breaking some carbide and chewing through aluminum chips.

Find the YT video of Jason @ Tormach running the Shear Hogs through their paces and adapt that to whatever carbide you are running. I think that’s the best way to learn feeds and speeds is to just turn round stock into chips since you will setup a spiral continuous cut starting on the outside until you finish to the center. Setup a conservative DOC/WOC and play with feed rate and RPM to see where the 440 will cut without bogging or if you can even attempt what you think you are attempting and go more aggressively until it bogs and be ready with the feed hold.

Search on my username and relevant stuff regarding feeds and speeds as it applies to a 440.

ProvenCut may be good recipes if you have zero knowledge of F&S (you are shown a known good fishing hole/pond but can you then learn how to fish in all situations from that?). I didn’t subscribe to i but I did ask someone for a couple examples when I was desperately trying to make an OG xsTech cut aluminum (it can but you need the patience of a saint and may have hours of cycle time).

There is free training here (https://www.americascuttingedge.org/) and the curriculum writer is a PhD whose perspective is that you want to model the cutting process in software to find resonant frequency to avoid chatter and maximize feed rate (productivity).

I paid for and then provided the 440 specs to the author to get him to model the 440 (Millalyzer) to mimic this approach. He takes a while to get back to you since it’s not his primary gig (also an academic) but was willing to import models for any other Tormach once you pay for it. Since you have a 440, it’s already in there.

I have licenses for Millalyzer, GWizard, and FSWizard. I used GWizard the least.

You are talking about $200-300 investment for Millalyzer and FSWizard.

Buy them both and learn on them. FSWizard is easier and quicker to get numbers quickly from.

The more you want to push a 440 aggressively, the more you are going to have to be there watching it VERY carefully and be ready to feed hold. I’ve pushed it probably way harder than intended and got it to cut aggressively but it would not cut consistently with those feeds/speeds. The HP/Torque curves, I would use 50% of spec for reliable cuts or to start. I got the point of headscratching when pushing it that I actually tested the RPMS using a tach to understand why recipes didn’t necessarily work. The issue I found was I could push it for maybe 30 seconds at a full load situation and then under more load, it would bog and if you didn’t feedhold and reduce rates…you WILL crash and break carbide. I broke a few due to bad F&S and probably more to not taking care to position. I chalk all of that up plus the software costs to learning as opposed to having gone to community college / trade school for this. Same dealio with me learning TIG (and other) welding myself.

Best thing to do is a structured school/class. You will probably make mistakes then, maybe less due to supervision but it will be structured learning + some mistakes, maybe less than learning on your own.

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